The Value of Coaching with Tony Whalen at Vision33
Before you think about hiring a coach for yourself or someone on your team, you want to think about the value of coaching. I hired a coach in the first two years of launching my business, and it was a powerful experience that helped me create a five million dollar business by year three. I would say that the value of coaching is priceless when you decide to transform from the inside out. You have to be ready for new insight and be prepared to be challenged. My guest today is Tony Whalen, Founder, and CEO of Vision33. His company was ranked #812 in the 2012 Inc 5000 list. Even more impressive is the fact that they have been honored to be on the Inc 5000 eight times over the life of the company. We talk about the value of coaching from his experience. Tony is not a client of mine here to tell you about me. I was not his coach. When we talked, I was intrigued by how he saw the value of coaching. Listen in to our conversation so that you can better understand what your value of coaching could be.
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Tony Whalen: The Transcript
Target Audience: Tony Whalen is the Founder & CEO at Vision33. Vision33 was founded with a clear vision of how technology solutions and professional services can transform growing organizations. The company’s growth and success are a result of its offerings in SAP Solutions, eGovernment and IT professional services for enterprises in the private and public sectors.
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Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.
– Tony Whalen
I think it’s one of the most powerful and impactful things that you can do as a leader in an organization is to have that coach. Again with all leadership you’re going to go in different business books you can participate in different group activities you publish videos about what really to have is very frank conversation with somebody that can bring some perspective.
– Gene Hammett
Welcome to growth think tank. This is the one and only place where you will get insight from the founders and the CEOs. The fastest-growing privately held companies. I am the host. My name is Gene Hammett. I hope leaders and their teams navigate the defining moments of their growth. ARE YOU READY TO GROW
– Gene Hammett
Coaching. You may think that as a leader you don’t need to be coaxed or you don’t need to have a coach available to you as you navigate the day to day of your business. And maybe you don’t but try this on for size. Who do you go to when you have these difficult moments that you don’t want to ask your executive team about. Some challenge or doubt you have in them. How do you go to when you have big decisions that you have to make and you don’t want the board to know about what’s going on because you haven’t truly understood how you think about this. Who do you talk to.
– Gene Hammett
Now you may think that you have peers you may have a mentor that you can talk to. But I have seen the value of a coach be astronomical for my growth of the company but also the leadership of my team and where I’m going with the business. I have seen how I needed to shift and how I had to take ownership of my changes my transformation as an individual. And that’s one reason why I am a coach in case you don’t know. I ran a fast-growing company for nine years and I got a coach that first kind of first or second year in that and it was a very short-lived program. But Linda was my coach and Linda was new to coaching but she asked me one powerful question that one question changed everything for me because I showed up every day more like a firefighter than a CEO and I’m sharing this with you because Linda changed my life and my world at that moment. So she asked Who are your most profitable customers. And that changed everything for me because I didn’t know the answer. I had to figure it out and I had to create a new business to align with the most profitable customers that allowed me to reduce the problems and really increase the profits and growth of the business.
– Gene Hammett
That changed everything for me. So when I end up losing everything nine years later which was nine-year strong like today roughly I went back to Linda and I said I want to coach others I want to make others feel the way you made me feel through my journey as a leader and she said then great and I started that journey and went in coach training and I got all this stuff and now I’ve been doing it for seven-plus years and it has changed my life and it’s what I live and breathe this to help people grow their business but really who I am is a coach them to transform their leadership.
– Gene Hammett
Our guest today is Tony Whalen and Tony is the CEO of Vision33. They’re a technology company. They do a lot of services and some app development and things like that do a lot of work with ERP systems. And I really wanted to dive into this. He’s not in the INC 500. So I’ve kind of broken my my my my promise to you guys of only interviewing 500. But I wanted to have Tony in the show because he talked about the value of coaching to him. And so that’s what we talk about today is that value of coaching. And one of the things that’s really interesting is Tony is not my client. He is not a commercial for me. This is truly just his experience with why he’s a head coach after 16 years being a CEO and why he needed to continuously engage in someone in these vulnerable conversations that he wasn’t getting anywhere else in the world. His coach has been his lifeblood to new ideas into new ways of showing up and to growing his business setting big goals and crushing those goals because he had a coach. So here’s the interview with Tony and I really am excited about bringing this to you here at Growth Think Tank.
– Gene Hammett
Hi Tony how are you.
– Tony Whalen
Great, Gene. How are you doing?
– Gene Hammett
I am fantastic. Glad to have you at Growth think tank. I’ve already let our audience know a little bit about you and the company. But I want them to hear it in your own words so tell us about Vision33.
– Tony Whalen
Yes. So Vision33 were primarily I.T. services professional services provider. Based in the US and Canada. A lot of our revenue or most of our business is based around being an escapee business one partner. So we sell implement ERP solutions for our customers really around the globe. And that really counts for about 70 percent of our overall revenue. We also have an e-government practice providing solutions for municipalities and counties across the United States. And we do some also some customer development as well. But really around business solutions for businesses ERP solutions.
– Gene Hammett
Well that’s a world I lived in for many years. I told you, you’re from Canada. I was working in Canada for Price water house Coopers. You probably know that name right.
– Tony Whalen
Absolutely absolutely. We worked with you know we see some opportunities as well in the past and partnerships.
– Gene Hammett
So I worked with actually Coopers and library before that which was the technology division.
– Tony Whalen
OK.
– Gene Hammett
I was there through the merger.
– Tony Whalen
Oh wow. It’s been fun times.
– Gene Hammett
I was just a kid that was told you know it’s not a big deal. Just keep you keep on your project Nothing’s changed I’m not sure nothing’s changed.
– Tony Whalen
Excellent.
– Gene Hammett
You have a pretty big company like I was looking at some of the research behind that she made the INC list yet some fast growth of the last few years about 70 million and 500 employees. Is that about right.
– Tony Whalen
Yeah that’s about right 70 million US 500 employees. We’re spread around 25 offices across the U.S. Canada each have an office in a couple offices in the UK as well. So again you know we with our business solutions we want to be close to the customer. So the kind of forces us to have a distributed workforce which can be challenging at times you know when everybody’s working in the same building. You could walk down the hall and talk to them but when they’re spread across eight different time zones a couple of different cultures it’s a bit more challenging.
– Gene Hammett
Well we all face that challenges. My team is not with me really at all. They’re all distributed virtual if you will. But it’s kind of the way of leadership. Now it is a little bit harder you have to be more intentional. The reason why you’re on the show today is because you have some experience with coaches in your leadership. So how many years would you say that you’ve been a leader and how many years have you been the CEO.
– Tony Whalen
I’ve been CEO for 16 years but really I’ve been a leader in an organization for. About 26 27 years now. It’s been a long time.
– Gene Hammett
Well 16 years as the CEO of a growing organization. Some people would say you know leadership doesn’t change that much. Why would you need a coach if you’ve got that much experience under your belt.
– Tony Whalen
Absolutely need a coach. Because I think you know it’s once you do a job for so long it’s very easy to get into a rut. And you know one of the reasons that have a coach is that actually keep you from getting in that rut and continue to grow and expand the organization. We started about 16 years ago. I took over as CEO. One of our core values that we established right from the get go was that you know this is going to be a growth oriented organization.
– Tony Whalen
And so that was one of our key core values that’s really going to drive the business. So we started out focusing on that. And we actually you know the first few years we did pretty good. We grew from a couple of million a year didn’t like 20 30 percent growth and continue to grow. But you kind of get those points through your growth curve where you’re probably growing a little bit faster than the businesses come up with. So you kind of get into a mode. OK. Too much operational things and you really need somebody there that’s kind of sitting on your shoulder telling you hey these are not the things that you should be you should be doing anymore.
– Tony Whalen
You really have to step back from the business if you want to continue to grow. If you’re happy with the business decides it is no problem. Jump into the operational side and you can be happy you can be very comfortable you can have a great life. That’s really not what our organization is all about. We still waiting on this process. This is why we’re doing this keeps it exciting for us. So really having that coach I remember our my CEO coach Joel on the first meetings I had with him.
– Tony Whalen
He’s explaining what his job was and he explained that that’s the PETA. So it’s a pain in the ass. So I’m going to be a go at guy asking you the tough questions. I’m going to be the guy who is going to challenge you the way people inside your organization are not going to challenge which is which is great. It’s that it’s refreshing sometimes it’s can be a bit aggravating but that’s what’s required.
– Commentary
Hold on for a second. Tony you just talked about growth oriented organization. He went into it with the intention of growing. Now you’re probably thinking yourself well doesn’t everybody want to grow but not everyone has that intention. Maybe they think lifestyle business maybe they think well I just want to get to this next customer. But when you look at your business and you really want to create growth things start to change you have to make different decisions. And as a coach I’ve seen people that wanted to grow but the way they operated the way they were holding back the reins the way they failed to empower people and for them to really take ownership. The business wasn’t growing the way they wanted to. So they had to change and then to shift as leaders. Now I mentioned this to you because this is really an important distinction about why you should have a coach because someone really challenging you to about what you’re really doing in the way you’re really showing up is what will allow you to grow as a person and that will allow the company to grow back to the interview with Tony.
– Gene Hammett
Well I want to ask you just from a context standpoint how long you been working with a coach.
– Tony Whalen
With this coach about eight years now actually. And then before that you had coaches maybe coaches from time to time for like two years. Different people in the organization. Absolutely. And you know. You kind of have these different relationships throughout your career where you know you have a coach for a while. You kind of pull what little gems of wisdom can you kind of pull from that person. You know some coaches after a while it’s like okay you know I think our relationship is done it’s almost time to move on but the one like Joel I have now is actually still very relevant to to us and I continue.
– Gene Hammett
My guess is if I just had to think about it since I do a lot of coaching with people and this is kind of interesting conversation me the reason why he’s been able to keep going is because he’s challenged you and you’ve continued to grow through this.
– Tony Whalen
Absolutely. Absolutely can challenge and say you know we have some great conversations so we’ll start off you know a typical kind of conversation with Joel. He’ll come and sit down and he ask me So how’s the family and how you personally which is actually very nice touch but we get out of the way pretty quickly and then we have a discussion about hey what’s going really well. Is this where we really knock out of the park where we drive with really good value for our customers. Where’s the growth real growth opportunities have.
– Tony Whalen
Happening in the organization. And we’ll have a discussion through that for a few minutes and then it will go to OK. So what’s not working in the organizing. What’s what do you really get bogged down. Actually. It’s good. You kind of have that both sides of the business. And again as he goes through he’s assessing basically you know how long I’m talking about certain topics as a measure for where I should be spending my time and where I’m not spending my time. And then you’ll go. So then he’ll after the meeting he’ll say I’m sorry.
– Tony Whalen
OK. These are things we talked about. This is worked really well. This is some challenging. Oh by the way here are some articles from like Harvard Business Review or from this author or this YouTube video you should go and watch that might help guide you through some of these issues that happen.
– Gene Hammett
Well I know that there’s different styles behind coaching. When you think about you know a moment where you’re you know maybe frustrated or channel industry and you’re something really coming up. What was it and how did Joel do remember a key question that kind of activated a new perspective for yourself?
– Tony Whalen
Yeah. So a number of years ago we’d actually just been through a couple of acquisitions that were fairly sizable and we’re looking at that year. I think we’re targeting about 60 percent growth year over year. And you know in retrospect I don’t know if we were necessarily ready for it. So we basically did a big acquisition we jumped in and I was up to my neck in operational issues and you kind of you run around trying to put out fires and keep things moving forward. Again your primary concern is always ensure that customers looked after even though things are kind of crumbling and behind that and having a conversation with Joe what I can tell by the look of is you didn’t actually say anything.
– Tony Whalen
I could tell by the look on his face is that you’re just not doing things you really need to step back and think about not how you’re going to solve this problem today but how do you get out of this and basically put a plan in a scalable plan for the future the things you’re doing today are not the things that you should be doing. If this business is going to be successful. And having that ability to kind of step away even for a few moments and think about what we need to do to be successful how we need to enable the other leaders in the organization to do the things they need to do so I don’t have to do that was really it was a bit of a bit of a turning point it’s a bit of a wakeup call that you know this is not just that you can’t put off that hire or know the three months you need to bring that person in today and not only that when you bring them in.
– Tony Whalen
You had been very deliberate about what their job needs to be and what they need to do to be successful in this organization. So onboarding leaders in the organization is also another key takeaway from that from that conversation.
– Gene Hammett
Do you think you ever struggled from like a command and control type of leadership so you could expand within command. Yeah like Have you ever had the type of leadership where you ruled by more directness or more fear and just wonder. Just curious.
– Tony Whalen
Yeah no it’s not really my personality. I actually some people are intimidated by me but I have no idea why. Not really my personality to do that although there’s certain points where you kind of have to draw a line but that’s not I’m definitely more consultative in my leadership style I figure so but I wanted to ask that because I mean being Canadian everyone’s nice I mean everyone knows no jokes but living there. It really is an amazing place of people but I wonder did your coach help you come up with some more confidence when you needed to add certain like difficult conversations. Was that helpful with your coach.
– Tony Whalen
Absolutely, absolutely. There’s so as I mentioned in terms of onboarding people and toward the organization and basically figuring out what they need to be successful. There are times to when we actually had to pay so something is going to retire from the organization and having that conversation with somebody and again you basically have somebody who is towards the end of their career and probably is a little hesitant about retiring. How do you actually transition that out without. Impacting the impact of the overall business. And that can be a tough conversation to have with people as well but you know necessary.
– Tony Whalen
We’ve also had conversations as well where there’s a leader in the organization that’s really not a good fit for the role that we put but there’s a really good fit elsewhere in the organization that may not be seen as a. High profile position. So having that conversation with people is that’s a tough conversation but really you kind of got to drive towards what’s going to make you happier and more fulfilled in your career. Doing this job that you know you’re not good at. You don’t really like that has high profile or do this job over here that you really like and you could have a big impact on the organization. And so that’s the that’s a tough conversation. But absolutely necessary because if they’re not you know exceeding in their existing role.
– Gene Hammett
What we got into a little bit of details what you think is helpful for context but I find a lot of leaders when they get their business growing they get comfortable and comfortable can kind of be the enemy and I find a coach can be that kind of thorn in the side sometimes. But to make sure that you’re not just resting on what got you here you’re continuing to grow as an individual as Joel provided that level of kind of insight for you as leader.
– Tony Whalen
Absolutely. And one thing that he said to me a couple of times so we’ve had sometimes conversations about you know this growth thing was great for a while maybe maybe it’s time for me to kind of sit back and kind of let’s update this for a while and he basically leaned forward he said Tony the day that you think that’s a great idea is the day you should be replaced. It was very blatant that you know what if that’s what you think you’re in the right you’re basically need to replace yourself with somebody else because that’s not what this organization shipped and it’s very bright and it’s time to rethink that position. OK time to get back and get back at it even though can be no it can be uncomfortable at times really. I mean this is why we’re here. This is basically why you’re doing it.
– Gene Hammett
I don’t want to get into the details of the numbers but I’d love for you to describe how you see the value of coaching as a leader of 16 years and working with one coach for eight years of that. What is that value invaluable.
– Tony Whalen
It’s you know we don’t. I don’t pay our coach a lot of money. He’s I guess further along in his career and he’s not doing it actually as a revenue generating so it’s not really something where he’s making a living from because he has other sources of revenue. He’s doing it because he absolutely loves but the value to the organization is. Absolutely phenomenal. I can’t. I can’t understand how somebody can continue to do this role without that outside influence. Like you said 16 years you can do it for a few years but having this check and balance from the outside with our organization to me we don’t have an outside board.
– Tony Whalen
We don’t have equity investment. Basically the people inside the business are the people run the business. But this is kind of our one voice from the outside. It really is a check and balance for how the business continues to grow and flourish. So you know I can honestly say I wouldn’t be I wouldn’t be talking to you today if it wasn’t for my coach. Absolutely.
– Gene Hammett
Well when you think about you know key moments of your leadership of 16 plus years what’s one defining moment that you feel like your coach really helped you get through.
– Tony Whalen
And it probably goes back to. A previous coach that I had to. And really it’s when I took over as CEO about 16 years ago prior to that I was involved in the business. There’s a couple of a few of his partners that were grown a business for about 10 years and we got to know a few million dollars in revenue. We did OK but we almost hit the ceiling. And I think I think back reflect that it’s like why were we not able to kind of get past that. We had a number of years where basically revenue was flat maybe dipped a little bit come back up and it kind of languished on for a number of years.
– Tony Whalen
It came to the point we had a conversation at this point we had a something from the outside coming in and looking at the numbers and talking to us about growth and those sorts of things. And it really made us realize that you know what. This is just this is just not working anymore. And it’s really time for us to think about like how do we get out of this. And that’s really when we decide you know what. It’s time for us to. Actually what we did it’s time for us to go our separate ways.
– Tony Whalen
So we actually took the business and split it. And so I ended up with an I.T. professional services the other guys kind of with on the way and actually I’ve been fairly successful as way as well. But then it’s OK now you’re CEO now you own this thing now what are you going to do. So again kind of put me onto a book by Jim Collins called Good Great which I’m sure you read. And really what we did is really took that book to heart in terms of the messages in it and really use that as a template to actually grow the business go forward. So in terms this whole growth focus on growth focus on driving value not trying to be everything that everybody but really focus in key areas where we know we can be the best. And that was that was the defining moment that started this whole 16 years as a CEO really started on that growth from that period to be you started a couple million bucks on a bad year we’ll do like 15 to 20 percent growth and a good year at 70 80 percent growth consistently for 16 years every single year we’ve been profitable. So we grew from 15 employees to 500 employees.
– Tony Whalen
So it’s been it’s been a good run. And I’m just you know we’re not done yet either. By no stretch of the imagination we would continue to growth. It’s been a lot of fun and we hope to continue this trend in the future so that real realization of this whole stagnancy in the organization and the coach that we had a time really pointed out that all these guys this time for a wake up call here is just kind of.
– Gene Hammett
Have you ever been a part of of like a mentor group experience with other CEOs or other high level leaders that you can think of like a vestige or ego or anything like that.
– Tony Whalen
Not formally. I’ve been involved in some roundtable discussions with other leaders as well hosted by our accounting firm that sort of thing where you kind of get together and talk about. Various issues that are challenging for organizations for growth whether it be like H.R. related or access to capital all sorts of things get the experience of that is probably helpful but it’s completely different than that of a coach.
– Gene Hammett
How would you say that working with the coaches. It’s been more powerful than just getting together and those kind of peer groups.
– Tony Whalen
Right. So we getting good with your peer. There’s a certain amount of ego that still sits in the room. Right. So he kind of got a good pass and even in terms of being vulnerable and being completely open and honest it’s tough to do in a group especially if there are peers or competitors or potential customers those sorts of things they can’t really I don’t think you can really be completely open and honest in that group as you can with the coach because I think it’s a very different relationship. It’s almost a therapist type of relationship that’s going on here that you really need to be.
– Tony Whalen
And you’ve got to buy into it. What are the key things that I’ve done since I’ve been working with Joel is really being as open and honest as I can in terms of where my head is on that particular day. And I could be having a bad day and I kind of read a little bit or maybe it’s a good day. But just being completely open and honest and that allows him to get a better picture and provide more guidance and better advice in terms of if I should go.
– Commentary
Tony just talked about the value of coaching. I don’t know where you are in your business but let me just kind of give you some insight to what the value of coaching could be. I share with you my story about Linda coaching me for a few months in the very early stages my business and it was really profound. But I’ve had other coaches since then and more recently I have a coach that has challenged me to think about my business and I’ve had that coach really helped me change perspective. Let go of some of the things that I was holding on to that was keeping me stuck and that has been all the difference. The value of coaching to me is priceless when you want to grow and you want to be the leader that you know that you can be and you’re not playing full out like that. You really are missing everything because I feel more confidence more courage in what I’m doing and how I serve. And I’ve had to do that because my clients want that too. So I’ve had to step up my own game so the value of coaching for you is very much like the value of coaching. For me it is priceless. How do you factor it. Well one way you look at it the way I look at it with most of my clients is we look at the value and the revenue of the company and the profitability of that company. Is it growing. Now I don’t know of any other coaches out there that are willing to put themselves on the line to look at the real growth factors of this. And I’m proud to say that every one of my clients that I’ve worked with on leadership and looking on really growing their business have had tremendous impact on the INC 5000 list. They’re growing fast continuously and they’re continuing to add zeros to the end of their business. That is the value of coaching. So results matter. And if you have a coach that is not really tracking the results specifically in dollars and cents then you are missing an opportunity because I really think that you should have someone that understands growth and really is intentional about the way you want to grow. Back to the interview with Tony.
– Gene Hammett
One of the things I’ve explained to people about the reason why coaches is very powerful is because they’re not emotionally attached to the people the process in the business the way you are as the CEO of this company. When when Joel for example says ask these powerful questions or maybe even very directly says something says you know you know when you think like that you’ve got to find someone or replace you when you think about the emotional attachment that Joel has. Have you seen that he’s able to bring a different perspective to you in the conversations you guys have.
– Tony Whalen
Absolutely,absolutely. Because it’s you know he’s emotionally I guess detached from the operations but he does very much care but it’s about caring about the success of the overall business. And you know he believes in I believe two is that if the business is successful. Everyone will benefit from that. So there’s things that you have to do that might seem like tough decisions that are made but if you don’t make them it’s really good. It’s to the detriment of the business. And if the business suffers then really everybody suffers. So it’s really about making the right business decision. And a lot of times it’s in the best interests of everybody. When you’re doing that.
– Gene Hammett
I want to wrap this up with kind of that big question. If someone was on the fence thinking about using any coach has had to be me or anything like that. Because again I’m not your coach. So we’ve already established Joel is your coach and four of eight years and has provided tremendous value to you and the organization. But what would you tell others that are considering it. But really kind of haven’t committed to that process.
– Tony Whalen
Yeah. I think it’s I think it’s one of the most powerful and impactful things that you can do as a leader in an organization is to have that coach. So again you know with all leaders you’re going to go read these different business books you can participate in different group activities with other CEOs like you talk about. But really to have this very frank conversation with somebody that can bring some perspective. And withdraws as well with yourself Gene is that you’ve talked to hundreds of other CEOs and there’s no problem I’m going to tell you that you haven’t necessarily heard before and it’s a similar Joel.
– Tony Whalen
So he brings a lot of that guidance and experience to the conversation. And again in a very. Very liberal and frank way you can have that conversation and not be concerned about what other impacts it can have. And so really you know having an open and honest communication really can drive to the heart of what the real issues are and how we actually move your organization forward. So I would very strongly recommend it. And you know even something on the fence you know what. You just tried for a few meetings and just see how it goes.
– Tony Whalen
And I think you know I think if you hit the right dynamic. And the right person how’s it can be huge. Absolutely.
– Gene Hammett
Well I appreciate you being here on that growth think tank Tony. This was a different little bit experiment if me to be able to share with you you’re not a client. And I wanted to do the real honest opinion. I’m a believer in coaching. That’s one reason why I came and became a coach but I really do appreciate you being here and sharing your story and really excited to have you represent vision 33 here and all the growth that you’ve had there.
– Tony Whalen
I really appreciate it. Thank you Gene. I really appreciate the opportunity as well. I’ve been looking at your and your podcasts over the last little while since we first met. And you there’s some really great content there so keep it up. It’s a great great endeavor.
– Gene Hammett
Appreciate it thank you.
– Tony Whalen
Thank you.
– Gene Hammett
What a powerful interview. I really appreciate the real ness that Tony brought to this conversation because I think that a lot of people just don’t understand the value of coaching. I wanted to bring on someone who wasn’t a client who wasn’t going to you know shine beyond because that’s not what you need. You need someone to be real with you straight with you. And some of the things that Tony saw is valuable perspectives that were gained through the coaching was exactly what I was hoping to get out. So hopefully you are rethinking. Do you need a coach or maybe you need a new coach to help you really grow beyond where you are now. Because sometimes it’s time to move on.
– Gene Hammett
I would love to get to know you and your business. I’d love to get to know how I could serve you. Maybe you’ve been listening in here. I’d love to just to talk to you and so reach out to me. Gene and gene have a dot com f you could think of any person that would love this podcast. Make sure you refer them to it. But make sure you tell them specifically what you’re getting at. As always lead with courage and I’ll see you next time.
Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.
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